The Lord of the Rings Book Club: Book One Discussion Recap (June 11th)
If you weren’t able to make it to our live voice chats for Book One of the Lord of the Rings, here’s a recap of what was discussed! Please excuse any typos or formatting errors as these are not as polished as I’d generally prefer my notes to be, but they are simply meant as a quick recap for anyone who missed our live chats since they are not recorded.
Book One Voice Chat Discussion Recap (June 11th)
A Conspiracy Unmasked:
We discussed “A Conspiracy Unmasked” in which Frodo thinks he’s going to have to say goodbye to his friends only to realize they have uncovered his plans and have been ‘conspiring’ amongst themselves to come with him.
The hobbits as models of friendship: “But it does not seem that I can trust anyone," said Frodo. Sam looked at him unhappily," It all depends on what you want," put in Merry. "You can trust us to stick to you through thick and thin - to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours - closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo… We are horribly afraid - but we are coming with you; or following you like hounds."
Impressions of Merry: Everyone was very impressed by how capable and organized Merry is in particular; in the Peter Jackson films, Merry and Pippin are depicted as much more goofy but they show a lot of maturity and cleverness in the books.
Hobbit Society: The role of Merry, Pippin, and Frodo within Hobbiton society; especially in contrast with Sam’s position in society. Class systems within the Hobbits; Sam calling Frodo ‘master’ as a sign of respect.
Hobbit Gifts: Farmer Maggot’s gift of the mushrooms to Frodo was similar to Bilbo’s gifts left behind to his loved ones.
Frodo’s Three Dreams in Book One:
Frodo’s dream at Crickhollow hearing the call of the sea and the tower
Frodo dreams of Gandalf in the tower in Tom’s house
Frodo dreams about the pale light behind a grey rain curtain
Discussion and Theories about Goldberry
Tolkien wrote about Goldberry that she "represents the actual seasonal changes in [river-lands]." - Carpenter Biography
Are there others like Goldberry? Yes probably but they’re uncommon.
References to Letter 153 discussion of Bombadil and Goldberry;
Great line from letter 153 — "I don't think Tom needs philosophising about, and is not improved by it"
Letter 144: Tom Bombadil is not an important person – to the narrative. I suppose he has some importance as a 'comment'. [...] The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, [...] But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you [...] It is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war. But the view of Rivendell seems to be that it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron.”
Re: Tom and Goldberry -- There are a lot of cases with Tolkien where he refuses to categorize or fully explain a character and so he allows things to remain a mystery which produces a sense of magic.
Community Theories:
“It says that she goes back to the river to bathe in the spring, so this reminded me of the Hades and Persephone myth.”
She’s the spirit of the lilies in the water - Gideon
“Kind of reminds me of Japanese mythology where rivers and forests will often have physical and spiritual embodiments, usually in the form of a dragon.” - Joey
Goldberry is a daughter, but Tom is fatherless. - Bryon
I’m fascinated by how his home is protected? Like he assures that nothing evil will enter while they’re there. - Jordan
On Bilbo Willingly giving up the Ring: “Okay I wanted to point out that I never realized the importance until reading the book that how you receive the ring impacts you. The fact that Bilbo gives it up willingly is very important!” - Jordan
Isildur’s Story: The Unfinished Tales section on the history of Isildur in relation to the Ring: he is intending to give up the Ring but he doesn’t get the chance to actually do it. It is interesting to think that someone as noble, and high as Isildur... from the line of the faithful, was unable to give up the ring in the way Bilbo did.
The Tragedy of Gollum
Hobbits giving gifts for their birthday; Smeagol demanding the Ring as a birthday gift. This may be significant to the story or it may just have been a cultural difference over the history of hobbits.
“Gollum was a stoorish Hobbit, and far older than the Shire hobbits. I think it's probably just a cultural difference…” - Joey
Probably a mix of the cultural differences but also the symbolism of the Ring at work
“The Sméagol/Deagol fight reminds me of Cain & Abel story and Gollem’s fallen nature.” - Suzann
Discussion of Weathertop: “The most fateful chapter in the writing of the Lord of the Rings!”
“Corey Olsen has also said that Weathertop is the chapter where LotR goes from being a sequel to the Hobbit to being a sequel to the Silmarillion.” - Nilay
This is the same world where Beren and Luthien existed in. These stories are all connected!
Weathertop used to be the home of one of the Palantiri
Reasons for Aragorn taking the Hobbits to Weathertop: it’s the highest point all around to look for Gandalf
The Rangers do leave a message there for Aragorn
In the Second Age, this is where Elendil waits for Gil-galad in order to join up for the Last Alliance so it’s hugely significant for Aragorn
Gandalf’s sign for the Hobbits which is kind of difficult to read which shows that he’s in distress at the time.
Importance of Gandalf:
“A fun thing that I’m reminded when reading this is that the hobbit don’t yet realize how important Gandalf is. Or how powerful and awesome.” - Jordan
The hobbits live in a bubble and is revealed to the reader along the way, too.
Silmarillion References in Book One: There is so much depth added to the story by the Silmarillion references!
Gil-galad poem
Beren and Luthien
Going back to Tolkien’s letters where he was trying to ‘mine’ the Silmarillion for information to include in the Lord of the Rings; Tolkien trying to squeeze as much as possible into the Lord of the Rings since he didn’t believe the Silmarillion would ever be published.
“It’s getting published whether they like it or not, lol” - Sea of Glass Podcast
Next Up: Our book club will continue our discussion of Book One until the end of the month; the Book Two channel will open on July 1st! Our July voice chats are scheduled for: July 9th and July 30th.
Book One: Book Club Notes
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